I wondered if anyone had ever tried using either the Steelwrist or Tiltrotator.

Are they any good? Worth the money - as they seem quite expensive?

Having seen them demonstrated, they look impressive but quite a challenge for an operator used to a conventional excavator.

Would be interested hearing from anyone who has experience of using them.

 I would be very carefull what machine you put it on and how much you use it!

I had one on a Case Duck and had horrendous counterbalance problems as well as trying to fold the arms up for transportation!

My overall opinion of them was for the 5% of time you might need it you seriously compromised the 95% of normal working and most good operators would never need one!

It could be handy on railway jobs though!

 I used the tiltrotator on a pc220 for a company a few years ago and as supadoopa rightly mentioned, they do create serious instability problems especially with some of the attachments that can be obtained with them, they are quite good for final trim work, batters, landscaping etc and can minimise re- positioning of the machine but also in some applications, work outside the guidelines of manufacturers recommendations , why not try and get one on demo maybe and see what you think, sure if they think there may be a sale they would have one fitted monday morning.

All the best and let me know what you think if you do try one.

It is well documented that I am a big fan of tiltrotator systems and I find myself in so many positions at work when I think to myself ...if I had a tiltrotator now this job would be so much easier!

The biggest problem I find in this country is that a lot of people are so slow to embrace new technology?

I have been operating 360 degree excavators for well over 25 years now but have not so far been able to spend much time with a tiltrotator apart from the odd go on one at shows, but since attending the Steelwrist UK launch last week I am going to be buying my own system to fit my Hitachi 3 ton mini digger at home.

In Sweden if you don't have a tiltrotator fitted you will struggle to get any work as most major contractors insist in the machines having one, not much of a problem though as over 95% of machines sold in Sweden have a tiltrotator fitted.

Remember when quick hitches first started appearing in this country? the old school brigade said the same thing about them ..."nah that idea will never catch on" !

 A 3 ton Hitachi?

WHY???

With a 3 Ton Hitachi fitted standard with a blade and an offset boom i can achieve any angle you can get with a tiltrotator!

Even if the driver was really bad with a 3 ton machine he isn't going to leave much for a labourer to do with a shovel.

There must be some really sh-t drivers in Sweden!

Unlike the quick hitch (that actually saves time) its just another gimmick  that someone like GE Capital will hire out to numpties for £700 a week.

From what I've seen of the Tiltrotator in action at SED, I would think you have to be a pretty skilled operator to use one - so I don't think the Swedes can be that bad!

If they can speed up jobs significantly, then there's no reason why they shouldn't become more commonplace over here - however, we can be a bit suspicious of new technology in this country.

Keep us posted with how you get on Iceman.

 Will,

Have a look at all the pictures and you'll see they all have one thing in common!

Theres nothing in any of the buckets!

None of the digging positions justify the tool appart from the one with the boy in the CAT digging the hole!

That picture worries me!

If he had a full bucket digging like that the machine would be on its arse and appart from that most foreman i know would take one look at the way he's set himself up to dig and tell him to park the machine up and go home before he kills someone!

Ive Tried to insert it.

Another thing you'll find is these toys are no good for digging because if you hit a bit of concrete with a tooth of the bucket you put serious stress on the Knuckle and rams and everything starts bending

Don't get me wrong,

I like technically challenging machines and gadgets.

When i worked for John F Hunt we used to get loads of experimental toys from Holland and were asked to abuse them just to find the breaking points so i'm not a novice at this kind of thing!

This is a very specialist toy with very limited use and after 24 years in the game i cannot think of many situations you would need one!

Cheers for the feedback.

But you think they could be good on railway jobs?

 When there is limited space and movement restrictions like a roadrailer on the lines in and out of tunnels? Maybe..

On a mini digger with a blade and offsett boom? Never!

>>With a 3 Ton Hitachi fitted standard with a blade and an offset boom i can achieve any angle you can get with a tiltrotator!
No you can´t. I´m sorry to say it but you can´t achieve any angle you can get with a tiltrotator.
I know, I´m used to driving with just tilt (on all buckets), tiltrotator, or even "stiff" buckets (no tilt and no rotating). I drive my own Volvo EC35 and EC45 PRO all day. I have also driven Neuson 9503 (10,5 ton rubber duck) and almost everything in all sizes from 1,5 ton to 70 ton from Volvo as a part time hired demo driver.

About stability:
Off course a tiltrotator will decrease stability but a good driver always adjusts his driving according to the situation.

About capacity:
A tiltrotator will decrease the capacity when it comes to "mass excavation" or whatever you call it. Simple solution:
A quick hitch on the digger, then the tiltrotator with the same q/h and then the bucket. If you have to excavate a lot and don´t need the t/r at the moment, just unhook the t/r and put the bucket back directly at the q/h of the digger and you´ve got a traditional digger. That way you will regain the higher capacity and lower fuel consumption of the digger without a t/r.
And when it comes to back filling and fine grading, get the t/r and you will get a digger that are prefectly for the task.

About t/r breaking from smaller concrete parts in the ground:
No, they don´t break from that. You really have to be an abuser to break them.

About learning to use it:
You would probably need a week or two to be able to use it without thinking all the time. But becoming a tiltrotator expert takes longer time, just as getting good at driving the digger itself.

Now, a t/r cost a lot of money. Do you really think that 95% of all diggers in Sweden would be sold with that expensive accessory if it wouldn´t be of any good? Do you really think that we, the Swedish drivers, are that dumb?

 Tiltrotators are here to stay and that´s it! Live with it or get beaten by the competition!

 Robban,

I don't suppose you work for Engcon in Sweden either!

 

Your toy wont cut the mustard in the UK

And to blow my trumpet ive driven everything from a 3 quarter ton Takeuchi to 125 ton Komatsu's with every known attachment you can show me, Long Reach, High cabs, the worlds biggest mobile shear, you name it buddy

Thats on the biggest contracts in the UK, most that will be bigger than Swedens next 10 years of construction!

Supadoopa:

 Robban,

I don't suppose you work for Engcon in Sweden either!

 

Your toy wont cut the mustard in the UK

And to blow my trumpet ive driven everything from a 3 quarter ton Takeuchi to 125 ton Komatsu's with every known attachment you can show me, Long Reach, High cabs, the worlds biggest mobile shear, you name it buddy

Thats on the biggest contracts in the UK, most that will be bigger than Swedens next 10 years of construction!

Are we discussing the size of our penis or the pros/cons of a t/r? I also find it very interesting that you can judge (a couple of hundred miles away) that Robban_C's stuff won't cut ut in the UK. Robban_C doesn't say that there is something wrong with your stuff, he's just trying to explain that when the customer sees the advantages of the t/r they are most probably going to require you to have one. Change is a matter that falls upon all of us eventually, get used to it or go do something else. And we ofcourse could tell with your first post that you're 20 feet tall and that your word is the one to listen to. -ekstam

Fellas, let's try not to get abusive.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion without being shouted down.

This is an interesting debate - but let's not make it personal.

 Well maybe our newest member from Engcon is lost in translation so i'll elaborate!

Ekstam,

Here in the UK I would only call an attachment for a machine a "tool" if it has a good practicle use.

If its not of any great use and costs a fortune I call them "TOYS"

At no time did i mention genitals of any kind!

You are going to come on here and try to agressively sell your product to the UK market.

Me?

I am a middle aged machine driver with 24 years operating machines in every kind of working envoirement (Not just construction and demolition) and i have qualifications in engineering too so if your product is not very clever I'm the kind of guy that will expose it!

 Engcon will be lucky to sell 200 units in the UK.

At no time will your toy be on 95% of our machines. 

 

 

Hi All

Just so there is no confusion, I work for a Tiltrotator manufacturer. I dont need to say which one as they all have their merits.

I read with interest at the comments about this so called toy. So where do i begin!! This concept has been around as long as Supadoopa has been driving machines and i have been involved with it for the past 5 years. It was developed in a country where they have probably the hardest ground conditions in europe (granite everywhere).

The guys above are totally right about the % of machines with this product on, the only no equipped machines tend to be face shovels and mass ex machines. There were over 5000 units sold in europe last year and approx 200 just in the UK so this can only speak for its self. The strength of the tiltrotators has never been doubted they are built to withstand the full force of the digger in maximum work and todate i have not had any issues with units that have been sold (800+UK only).

The only time I have seen premature wear is on a unit working on a 29ton machine in a open cast mine digging a diagonal coal seam, and he needed a set of pins and bushes after 1800 hrs which was a small price to pay due to the rock coal contamination that they were saving. Dont get me wrong it can break and so can the digger it is attached to if you try hard enough.

The hard facts are as follows: The concept grew in sweden when they went though a recession, we are doing that now and a lot of machines are standing in yards without any work (hence people are on this forum and not out digging). We in the UK need to reduce are labour and machine costs and this is a proven way of doing just that, I already see a massive amount of major contractors looking at the way they do things and opening their eyes to what is happening over the water. ( why do so many dutch companies have big contracts in the UK? its because they spend time and money on the machinery to reduce there overall cost. remember a dutch digger is a lot more expensive to buy than it UK equivalent) I am being told that we are in for a hard time over the next year and we need to open our minds and try something new to be in with a chance of surviving.

The great thing about all of this is that if you go out and try to hire a man, machine and tiltrotator you cant because they are all busy, doesn't that tell you something. Anyway sorry about harping on! But if you have any questions about Tiltrotators I'm your man.

Hi Pat, and welcome to the forum.

Some interesting points you make about Tiltrotators catching on during the recession.

I'm sure some of our regulars will let you know their views!

Cheers.

Hi Pat.

I will get flack because i'm an operator offering free advice for no gain!

 But heres a scenario from my team!

Your in a 3 ton hitachi trimming back for road formation you have pulled back to level about 5 feet and now you have a huge pile of muck!

We all know most mini diggers just about reach the mouth of the site dumper and the bucket is almost emptying itself because it wont curl up anymore!

Hands up anyone who knows what a tiltrotator will do to that situation?

I reckon it will take away a percentage of your curl (dropping more muck on the floor).

You will have to load it with half buckets because a full one will have the machine over (and its pilot through the windscreen)

Appart from costing a fortune to buy and pipe up the machine!

But then you could hay make it!

As long as you do it with half a bucket and don't reach too far!

And while your doing this you have two labourers leaning up against shovels laughing at you!

 

 

Here is a pearl of wisdom for everyone!

Heres a scenario i had a few years ago driving a 30 ton CAT!

It was for a Very well known formwork company on a job by the Euston underpass!

The bucket ram had been tapped off so i could fit a chandelier pile breaker on!

Everytime i put the chandelier on it blew the steel unions!

I raised this issue seriously with my site manager!

He had 3 fitters come out!

One from a famous hose repair company!

One from the company that hired us the Chandelier (at £700 a week)

And our company fitter!

They all said there was nothing wrong with the set up on my machine!

I personally contacted CATs tech department and found the working pressure of the bucket ram was over 2000psi the safe working pressure of the chandelier!

Moral of the story?

They will say anything to make a sale!

Tread carefully!

 

I tell you what boys!

Put your money where your mouth is and give a free months trial before purchase!

"But heres a scenario from my team"

 Don't just look at the limitations, look at the possibilites as well.You can turn the bucket whichever

way you want with an R/T, giving it even more reach for dumping into a truck.

 Labourcost has always been high here, therefore as much as possible is preffered to be done with a single machine on the worksite.

 A typical site has a duck running around doing all sorts of jobs ranging from digging for a foundation, finishwork for grass or asphalt  to unloading pallets from trucks delivering to the site

How about dozers, why does it exist dozers with 6 way blades when a simple SU blade with manual tilt would be enough?

The ability to do more and better work with the machine perhaps?

PS, Can I myself choose which manufacturer of R/T's I represent?

 Jevlar,

You can do 250mph in a Buggatti Veyron but its no better than a fiat panda in London!

And just exactly where is "HERE"?

I don't know any "TYPICAL" sites in London have a Duck running around!

Does this mean your fantastic "TOY" needs another machine to run around after it?

Sorry, forgot it doesn't show the location, it's Sweden of course,

May I suggest you start bidding on jobs here, I feel it would be very profitable for you since the

plant operators here are so wrong?

If i can work out how to put photos on here I will reenact Supadoopa's turmoil over how to load a dumper.

There is one problem though, I will not be able to spill muck on the road over the side of the dumper due to the fact that i can position the bucket where I want it as to fill the dumper to its maximum by filling in all the corner with a slide of a roller on the joystick.

How many times do you see that situation where half the bucket load is on the floor because the dumper driver can not get square to the digger and you see them wasting time either shouting at one another or cleaning up after the dumper has left. PROBLEM SOLVED and MONEY SAVED with a tiltrotator.

While we are on the whole work method thing. A pile of pea gravel is bloody expensive, yet we Brits still want to drag it around the site leaving a layer in the soil because we just could not quite get it with the machine and no one wants to use a shovel these days. I rest my case and sort the photos

Now there's a supprise!

 Pat,

Firstly if you want to show us, YOU TUBE IT,

Secondly if there is pea gravel on the floor most drivers know its an acceptable thing to mix it 70-30% so you have virtually no waste at all,

Your pitting your witts against a seasoned machine driver here not some bloke that sits in an office!

 

Supadoopa:

Your toy wont cut the mustard in the UK

And to blow my trumpet ive driven everything from a 3 quarter ton Takeuchi to 125 ton Komatsu's with every known attachment you can show me, Long Reach, High cabs, the worlds biggest mobile shear, you name it buddy

Thats on the biggest contracts in the UK, most that will be bigger than Swedens next 10 years of construction!

Whoa, you´re the man! You seems to know everything.

So why don´t you let everyone else be, and mind your own? If someone wants a Rototilt® to their machine so just leave it there. Don´t bother!

And for your interest, the soil and ground conditions in Norway and Sweden is amongst the most harshest in Europe. The limestone in UK ??? Don´t make us laugh! You could dig that equipped with a ripper and a bucket!

I´ve  been repairing  Rototilts® for years now and they don´t brake apart as you wants to claim!

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B7DpMIvI9Q&feature=related

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEg2Laahi8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LN6SKijoyA&feature=related

 

 

Supa, if you can do the same work they do, with their machines, just as quick or quicker with your stiff operated bucket, without any help AT ALL, except for your machine, then big kudos to you man.

Otherwise, Just face the fact that rotortilts is the new era, and is here to stay!

 

But sure, you are right when you say that it add alot of weight, messes up the balance and whatnot, but a skilled driver would compensate for that. I am yet to even be close to tipping an excavator over just because i have a big bucket full of gravel, and an rotortilt attached.