General Construction Discussion

Are All These Foreign Workers Really Saving Our Construction Industry?

TonyRed — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:31:15 GMT

I am a multi qualified construction worker. I am an AP/Crane Supervisor, qualified carpenter for 25 years, Slinger/Signaler, Health and Safety Advisor and I am fed up with reading this rubbish that the building industry would be on it,s knees without the massive influx of foreign labour over the last 4 years. They are the reason that your honest well qualified worker is back in the same position that we were in in 1992! Back getting ripped off by agencies and treated like second class citizens. The unions were warned 4 years ago by me and I was given the usual reply, you,re a rascist! Rubbish. I,m a realist and want to look after my own future. The sooner the top jobs in the unions go to foreigners, do they know they can vote for their own to stand on the exec council?, the better. They would start to panic when their cushy number is taken by a Pole, Roumanian or Portuguese building worker. The same could be said for our MP,s. The foreigners could get a British passport as well as a house, benefits and ruin our infrastructure and then run for Parliament. There are that many foreigners in every city they would walk into Parliament and see how our current batch of cheats and robbers, I mean MP,s react to losing their jobs. Something would be done then.

Temporary Measure

Carolyn Walsh — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:56:48 GMT

Until ConstructionSpace is reborn, take a look at the Construction Forum on the Discussion Groups in AccountingWeb.

It's supposed to be accountants only but there are Finance Directors of construction companies. It's not as lively as this forum, but some interesting comments are made.

It may be of interest to some people here, i.e those who are interested in the tax and other legislation that impacts the industry, and real construction people could serve the accounting world well by telling them how it really is at grass roots level.

Just a thought

cscs card

makolic — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:49:06 GMT

Hi,I have been a Carpenter for 32 years,but with no formal qualifications.i was taught on site.I have a Experienced worker CSCS card,which lasted 1 year,and has run out.I managed to get a 6 month extension,which runs out in feb 2010.I have been unemployed for 10 months due to the recession.Because iam unemployed they will not access me on site,SO NO HELP IS AVAILABLE,because iam unemployed.NO CARD NO JOB.Does anybody have any advice they could offer.I also spoke to an assessor who told me the funding had been withdrawn.But they were FAST TRACKING EASTERN EUROPEANS.Any help,CHEERS.

Project Management

robidi — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:24:37 GMT

Are there any contractual implications in using Project Managers if so what sort of implications are they?

Trying to write a report on PM and this has cropped up.

Thanks, any help would be greatly appreciated.

ConstructionSpace Forums - Option for Relocation?

nrdoughty — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:44:34 GMT

Hi All -

It's sad to hear about the imminent closure of Contract Journal and www.contractjournal.com. Like much of the industry we have been long-term subscribers to the print edition - and follow the CJ updates on Twitter. It's a valuable resource that will be missed.

I've not been active on the ConstructionSpace forums but can see that there is a vibrant community here - and as Asite has an option for helping keep this alive I thought I'd toss it into the ring!

We launched the Asite Community at the end of June as part of our Asite Summer '09 Release. It is free to sign-up and free to use and we'd be happy to work with you to replicate the forums hosted here on ConstructionSpace, and to look at enabling photo galleries and user blogs.

We're looking to grow the Asite Community and to expand its reach into more general industry discussion anyway (to date it has been largely discussion about the Asite platform) - so it may be that this is a good fit for enabling ConstructionSpace to live on in another form.

I'm keen to hear thoughts on this in any case.

Kind Regards,

Nathan

Looking for work on the Olympics

paddyman — Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:29:29 GMT

can anyone help me,i'm a plasterer returning to the uk after working abroud for many years,would like to know how i would go about finding some work on olmpic village

Contract Journal to close

EEPaul — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:53:43 GMT

Got an email from Reed Business Information this morning...

On a sadder note, the end of this month will see the closure of Contract Journal and its sister web site www.contractjournal.com. Like the construction contractors it serves, Contract Journal has been hit severely by an unprecedented market recession which has slashed advertising volumes by more than half. The editorial and sales team have reacted superbly to the downturn, producing great content and satisfying the needs of the much smaller advertising base. But despite their efforts, the market is now not large enough to support a large circulation free title. The last issue of Contract Journal will be at the end of the month and Contractjournal.com will close simultaneously. Every effort is being made to redeploy the staff elsewhere at our parent company Reed Business Information (RBI).

So the end of Contract Journal, and presumably the end of Construction Space too?

The Nuclear Boom?

Supadoopa — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:55:18 GMT

I just found this headline from some cowboy outfit!

Contractors urge early involvement on nuclear

The story claims a £40 billion bill for the taxpayer!

Forgive me but i'm a bugger for having a selective photographic memory!

If i see something and it lights my fire I can remember it word for word!

And I am sure as sh-t I can Remember reading about a French firm that offered to build 200 mini Nuclear power stations in the UK for free!

Any of you guys want to expand on this?

I am a bit confused!

How to upload photos / insert photos into forums

Will Mann — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:39:49 GMT

I appreciate it’s not obvious how to upload photos on here, or insert photos into forum posts. So I thought I’d draw up this guide.

Note: You can only upload photos of 4MB maximum, but ideally you should not be uploading anything above 500KB.

1. Login, then go to ‘Photos’ (top navigation).
2. Click on ‘Upload a photo’ (right hand menu, under ‘Shortcuts’).
3. Select a photo gallery to add a photo to. You can either upload in one of the shared galleries listed, or pick your own gallery (which will be your own username).
4. Click on ‘Publish new photo’ (left hand menu, under ‘Common Tasks’).
5. Click on grey ‘Upload photo’ button.
6. Click on grey ‘Browse…’ button and locate file on your computer.
7. Name your photo in the ‘Friendly name/description’ field.
8. Click ‘Upload’.
9. Add a ‘Description’ (bottom field) if you feel the photo needs one.
10. Click ‘Save’ (bottom right, you may have to scroll down screen).
11. The next screen will show all the photos recently uploaded to this gallery, and your photo should be at the top. Click ‘View’ (right hand side) to see how it looks in the gallery.
12. To link to this photo from the forum, copy the URL of the photo, then go to a forum post, and click on the ‘Insert/Edit Image’ icon at the point you want the photo to appear. Then paste in the URL and click ‘Insert’.

Housing market - recovering or not?

Will Mann — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:45:40 GMT

How do people feel about the state of the housing market?

Is the recovery of recent months going to continue? Lots of house builders are raising money to buy land and restarting mothballed projects.

But on the other hand, the 'experts' seem to think we're heading for another drop next year...

To all Guests!

Supadoopa — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:41:37 GMT

Stop being Guests!

Join the club and blow your nuts out!

YOUR INDUSTRY NEEDS YOU!

Optimism is alive and kicking in construction - According to the RICS

Molevalleyman — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:22:47 GMT

Doesn't the RICS operate in the South East?

Four RICS Practices that I know around the S.E. all report work coming to an end with nothing to replace it and staff are being laid off - we can't even get our facts straight on that one - Gawd-elp-us!

Stud wall problem - who to sue, architect or manufacturer?

danny boy — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:01:53 GMT

Ok, so here's a legal one to wrestle with.

We have built a stud wall to a design supplied to us by the architect. The architect's specification was the manufacturer's standard for the plasterboard.

The stud wall has since started to bend. It turns out that the information from the manufacturer that the architect used was incorrect. Hence the wall failing.

Who is to blame here?

The manufacturer for supplying erroneous information to the architect?

The architect for not checking the information was correct?

As contractor we have simply built the wall to the design supplied by the architect... Now we are going to have to sue - but who?

Can a director sub for his own company?

MJ Kool — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:17:36 GMT

Does anyone know if it's possible for a director and major shareholder to work as a self-employed contractor for their own company? Essentially, they would be paid seperately and differently for two different job roles with different functions.

Best find on a site?

BumbleB — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:38:25 GMT

That Olympic Archaeology gallery got me thinking. What's the best find on a building site?

I've never really come across anything that spectacular from an archaeological point of view but I do rememer being on a site once where they found a German World War II bomb. I don't recall what type it was but they said it weighed almost 1,000kg. They had to get BACTEC in there to dispose of the thing - set work on site back quite considerably and we had to put an EOT claim in as a result.

Still, it was probably better for everyone that the thing was dealt with properly. This is the alternative:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,444119,00.html

World War II Bomb Explodes on German Motorway

A highway construction worker in Germany accidentally struck an unexploded World War II bomb, causing an explosion which killed him and wrecked several passing cars.

A cutting machine lies wrecked by the side of the A3 motorway next to a small crater left by the explosion.
Zoom
AP

A cutting machine lies wrecked by the side of the A3 motorway next to a small crater left by the explosion.
A World War II bomb has exploded during construction work on a German highway, killing one worker and injuring several motorists who were driving past, police said.

The worker had been cutting through the road surface near the south-western town of Aschaffenburg when his machine struck the bomb and triggered it. Police said they weren't sure yet what type of bomb it was. "The explosion seems to have been too small for it to have been an aircraft bomb," a police spokesman said.

The A3 Autobahn linking the cities of Frankfurt and Würzburg has been blocked in both directions.

More than 60 years since the end of World War II, construction workers still frequently unearth unexploded bombs and it is not uncommon for whole city districts to be cordoned off and even evacuated while bomb disposal experts defuse them.

Indeed, just last week, some 22,000 people were evacuated from their homes in Hanover when three World War II bombs were discovered.

Oh.. the times they are a changing!

Molevalleyman — Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:45:01 GMT

The ‘Local' that I pop into now and again, on my way home from wherever I might be actually doing some work, is generally used by Building Men who, when asked the following question, gave this general response - amongst other expletives!

Question: What can be done to re-introduce us all to an industry that once meant something to us and to our country?

The following are comments made by those men and women in the ‘rubber-dub' that evening:

"Stop sitting on our arses, in front of computer screens and, get out there and actually do the work" was one immediate answer - amongst many others who said "computers are killing businesses, due to removing natural initiative and individualism".

"Get rid of the frauds who know little or nothing whatsoever about building, take on people who know their job, get rid of all of the pretentious and stupid ID cards, CSCS etc and all of the other equally non-sensical gimmicks and take on an independent inspector / Clerk of Works to oversee the site" - being a Site Inspector/ Clerk of Works myself, I particularly liked that one - "Gissajob"!

"Only employ Site Management from men who have actually done the job i.e. ex tradesmen, get rid of the worthless form filling, the ‘dressing-up' and let the man in charge call the tune, along with the project architect, the site surveyor and the Clerk of Works - the way it used to be."

"Get rid of recruitment agencies, those leeches who survive off the backs of the working men and women and who know nothing whatsoever about the industry that they are ‘people peddling' in".

"Pay building workers generally - whatever it is that they do on site, a decent wage." - I had a look through some of the recent ads and in looking at the ‘labourers' required columns, I would definitely agree with that comment and would ask..who's making the money??!

Salary: £5.80 - £6.50ph

This position is being advertised on behalf of ........ who operate as a recruitment business. Duties include sweeping site, removing rubbish, unloading and transporting of materials, and aiding tradesmen where necessary. Must have First Aid Ticket. Must have CSCS card. Please have the contact details of two references available on request. This is a temporary position.

Salary: MEETS NAT MIN WAGE

This vacancy is being advertised on behalf of ..............who is operating as an employment agency. Previous experience would be an advantage. We have vacancies for labourers to work in the .... area making skirting boards. This will be a very noisy and dusty environment to work in. Access to transport would be an advantage due to the location. This is a temporary ongoing position.

Salary: £6.50 PER HOUR

This vacancy is being advertised on behalf of ..............who is operating as an employment business. This Local Employment Partnership employer shares information about new starters with Jobcentre Plus for statistical purposes only. Previous experience on large building sites is essential. Duties will include keeping the site tidy, lifting and shifting materials, and all other associated tasks as required. This is a temporary position for 2 weeks.

I taped the conversation that particular evening with the boys and girls permission and whilst I agree with a lot - not necessarily all that was discussed, I do believe that we have lost our way big-time, we have allowed our industry to be taken over by ‘pretenders' simply after a fast-buck, spouting this very tiresome ‘Sector' garbage, we need to return to the old-ways and rid ourselves of the endless rubbish that has been developed in order to control us, worthless concepts designed only for profit and Identity control. I believe that Construction needs a major kick up the arse; it requires apprenticeships - starting at the bottom (including wages) and working up instead of clamouring for the graduate who has obtained a degree in Psychology and is now in charge of a construction site but, who couldn't knock a nail in!

So, I reiterate my original question... What can be done to re-introduce us all to an industry that once meant something to us and to our country?

Regards

MVM

Cost of putting self-employed construction workers on PAYE

House Martin — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:29:11 GMT

I have to admit I can't believe HMRC are seriously considering forcing self-employed construction workers onto PAYE in the current climate.

For companies like ourselves, who are heavily reliant on subbies, it will mean considerable extra costs at a time when margins are hardly huge!

CJ Forum

Molevalleyman — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 15:11:15 GMT

"There are 475 guest(s) online. There are 2 member(s) online."

We're definately starting to Rock and role!

Good Stuff!

Regards

MVM

CDM regulations / domestic clients

danny boy — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:30:04 GMT

Domestic clients are officially termed as people who live in a property and appoint a builder to carry out work on the property. They have no client responsibilities under CDM 2007.

But what about if I appoint a builder to develop a property for me, which I then sell a few months after completion?

Would the CDM regs apply - or by living in it during the building work am I a domestic client?

Longest retentions can be withheld for?

Sparky — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:34:33 GMT

What's the longest contractors can keep back retentions for?

Is there anything in law that can be enforced, or does it depend on the contract signed.

Changing Role of the Quantity Surveyor

JokerDisco — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:28:25 GMT

Good Afternoon All, I am currently writing a report paper on the ever changin role of the quantity surveyor, I have only been a QS for 6 years and would be interested in getting somebody elses thoughts and opinions on the subject, especially some of you older boys out there

Thanking you for your time in advance

Chris

Water Ponding

matt908 — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:37:50 GMT

How do you determine water ponding on site?

PAYE workers cost Laing O'Rourke contracts

Dave Williams — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:39:17 GMT

I am writing in response to the article entitled “PAYE Workers Cost O’Rourke Contracts”.

The Government initiatives to which the article refers took the form of HMIT (the Inland Revenue in its days before the merger with Customs and Excise) writing to construction firms advising them that if they put all their workers on the books from a given date then it would not seek to collect any liabilities relating to earlier tax years which might arise as a result of the construction firm treating its workers as self employed where they should really have been taxed as employees.

A number of construction firms took the decision to reclassify their self employed workforce as employees but many more continued to pay them as self employed and this clearly gave those firms an advantage over those who decided to employee their entire workforce.

However surely all of this does is create a competitive market place. No one forced the construction firms to reclassify the status of their workforce and any company which engaged workers on a self employed basis did so in the knowledge that HMIT was always likely to review the status of their workforce and if they found that the workers were actually employees then the company would be liable to very significant amounts of tax, national insurance, interest and penalties which in some cases could result in the company going out of business.

As a consequence it was very important for firms to get status right, and ensure that the workers taken on as self employed were indeed self employed with their terms and conditions complying with the criteria established by law and caselaw. Surely under these circumstances there is no unfair advantage to be gained, and any company, could have engaged workers under terms and conditions which would have satisfied the criteria for self employed status, had it so desired.

Criteria for determining whether or not a worker is self employed has been well established for a number of years and where agreement cannot be reached between the authorities and the taxpayer, the Courts have been perfectly able to decide the case, sometimes in favour of the authorities and sometimes in favour of the taxpayer.

Mr Prior’s article refers to statistics which were included in a report by Professor Mark Harvey of Essex University on the subject of the “The Evasion Economy – False Self Employment in the Construction Industry”. Many of the assertions made in the treasury consultation paper appear to have been directly influenced by this report and yet in an independent review of this document by Susan Kirk of Nottingham Business School (Nottingham Trent University) it was found that “this report is written in a pejorative manner with a number of influences and statements made without supporting evidence. The source of the statistics is not always evident particularly those that purport to derive from the labour 4 survey 2007. The emotive language used and lack of substantiation of assertions made has led to a report that lacks persuasiveness and objectivity. There are numerous instances of the use of judgemental terminology and unsupported comments”.

The UK construction industry can be characterised as a cyclical business exposed to a volatile market with short term time limited contracts which require a highly mobile and flexible workforce. Needless to say in the current economic climate demand in the construction industry is currently deeply depressed.
The origin of self employment in construction is a function of the industrial cycles and process and it is not borne out to a desire to avoid tax and NIC contributions.

Enterprise is a significant feature in the construction industry. Many successful building firms can trace their origins to self employed sole traders who grew into the businesses we recognise today. The proposals in the consultation document to which this article refers will severely reduce the opportunity to future generations to set up in business and expand it accordingly.

Mr Prior’s article appears to focus on a perceived unfairness to construction workers by being treated as self employed whereas really they should be employees. It does not mention any perceived unfairness to construction workers who may be forced to become employees because of this new campaign by HMRC whereas what they would prefer would be to be self employed, be their own boss and therefore make their own decisions concerning how and when they undertake their work. Some may wish to build a business for future generations rather than be an employee on a permanent basis and have nothing to pass down or sell on once they retire.

The new construction industry scheme which took effect from April 2007 requires contractors to sign a monthly declaration that they have satisfied themselves that all self employed workers engaged by them are genuinely self employed. There are severe penalties which can be charged by HMRC where this declaration has been incorrectly made. Surely the best and most fair way forward would be to continue with the well established laws concerning employment status and for HMRC perhaps to increase the resources devoted to policing the system so that construction companies who engage workers who are genuinely self employed may be allowed to continue to gain a competitive edge, where possible in an ever competitive market place and construction companies engaging self employed workers who are actually employees will be found out by HMRC and forced to pay the price for non compliance.

If any changes are to be made to the current regime in determining self employed status then surely in the interest of fairness these rules should be applied to all self employed workers and not just those in the construction industry. It was widely reported in the press last week that this type of problem exists within the BBC and it has been known for years that IT workers also have the shadow of false self employment hanging over them. I have not yet found anyone who can explain to me in any way shape or form why a particular set of rules should be applied to construction workers but not to all other workers within the UK.

As Mr Prior finishes in his article “what a ludicrous way to run a major industry like construction - I think he and I can agree on this point, but for somewhat different reasons!

Ok i thought i'd seen it all

Supadoopa — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:37:32 GMT

This is a traveller given to me on a temp foul drain run from the site offices!

The Engineer was fresh out of Uni.

We're going to abuse him on this job!

He ordered 4 inch pipe and 6 inch manholes chambers,

After the first dig he lowered everything 500mm!

The pipeline and two manholes started off 90 mm low then 250 mm high without moving a thing!

Then just when i thought it can't get any worse the he checked the fall on a plastic duct for an electric cable!

How would you feel about being fined for your carbon footprint?

Will Mann — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 08:41:55 GMT

Here's one company which is taking drastic action to cut carbon emissions.

If you work for the firm, you get a personal carbon allowance, and if you exceed it - your salary gets cut!